Interview with DesignArbeid
Barbara and Ruben, first of all, I would like to thank you for coming to Hamburg to be part of our 10th Stilvorlagen anniversary with its slogan”Step across the Border“. I hope you’ll enjoy your time with us. We would like to start with interview questions that we, as students, developed. We are very interested in you and your political and socially critical work.
Bringing socially conscious projects to life wasn’t a spontaneous idea, right?In a team of two, everything has to work out. How did you two decide to work together?
Ruben: It’s started about seven years ago. I used to work with Adam Oostenbrink. He is a colleague of mine and we used to do graphic design. We had a lot of fun. But in 2006, something happened for the first time. We were invited to do publicity for a social design project in Cape Town, South Africa. My colleague Adam said, ”Nasty, I can’t be away from home for three months“. So I went by myself and had a really cool experience. I was in a township, so I had a lot of insight into what happens in a township. At the same time, you see people from the past resistance movement and they are working together. All the students were really into it. That was an insight into what communication could actually achieve in design. So in the few years after that, I started doing it more and more. I think that was the moment when Barbara said, ”we need someone else – three of us to work together“.
Did you study art instead of design?
Ruben: No, I was always into graphic design. Then I thought that art was actually more interesting. So I did a bit of art – but then I had to make a choice, since it seemed I was going to be a starving artist. Why? I thought, if you have the skills of an architect, a media designer or a communications expert, you can always become an artist. Of course, this isn’t true. Don’t get me wrong – after that, I was excited about all the different talents. But at the time I thought I would have some financial security and not have to live off of my parents for the rest of my life. It was a bit of a fake excuse in a way.
Barbara: I have a BA in graphic design, but I did an MA in fine arts. I didn’t want to get into old-school graphic design, but I did want to see how that expertise could be translated into art and what you could do from a design perspective.
How would you describe the idea of your work to someone who doesn’t know DesignArbeid?
Barbara: I would say that we are a research–based design studio. Most of the time we look at how artistic processes in projects can influence democracy or give people more power. We also research what design is, what design means, what our role is – now and in the future – and what difference we can make. I think that’s the most important thing we do.
How do you work in your projects? Is there a division of labor? Who does what?
Barbara: I think there are different kinds of designers. There are designers who really make things, researchers or the ones who organize things. I am more a researcher and organizer.
Ruben: In our cooperation, we think about DesignArbeid and where Arbeid comes from. I tend to go into the streets and work with the people there. Barbara does things the other way around. She looks at the networkers – not on the streets, but those who manage the area. You then realize where your approaches cross – on a research but also social level.
So it’s not just the Dutch national government sending you projects, but rather more local involvement?
Barbara: Yes, if we are researching and then organizations find us because they know we are experts in the field, then of course we have some income. We usually then invest it in the project.
Do you hire anyone? Do you enter into cooperations with local artists or designers?
Barbara: Always freelancers. We work with a photographer, illustrators, interns, interaction designers. If we work locally, we also work with locals.
What is the most positive feedback you have received?
Ruben: I suppose it’s when everybody gets to the finish line. And then the feedback of what the project has achieved. It´s like a theater play. You make a work, you probably hate it half of the time and in the end, everybody starts crying together: you know that we did a really great job. And we never know what this job is. Is it just a process? Or is it actually design?
Barbara: We also have an exit strategy, because you mostly work with vulnerable people. You have to be aware of the impact you have when you leave. So, did you make them stronger? If you leave, do they become less strong? That´s quite important to think about.
Another interesting project that we are excited about is ”Atlas of District“. Was this project a result of your own initiative, or were you hired to do it?
Barbara: It´s our own initiative, but it was the result of the project we did in the ”de Kolenkitbuurt“ neighborhood. So we did different kinds of interventions and research: the outcome indicated what they required. They needed to find other people with skills. There are a lot of people in this area who are unemployed, but they do have skills. So this was a way they could find each other.
Do you plan to realize this project? Did you get the opportunity to test it? If so, how did it work/ what was the feedback?
Barbara: Well, we did design and realize it. Then we implemented it in ”de Kolekit“ and another area in Amsterdam. It worked quite well. It was difficult in these poor areas – a lot of the people in the area didn’t have internet access. That was quite important in this project, that made it difficult.
You both teach at the design school (B: Kunstakademie AKV St. Joost in Breda & R: HKU Universität der Künste in Utrecht). How much differs your teaching from your projects/works? Where are connections? Do you encourage your students to do the same as you do: to leave their comfort zone and be open for new things/ views?
Barbara: Yes, we both teach at different academies, so I’ll speak for myself. I do encourage students to go across borders, but that doesn’t mean to do exactly what I do. So you don’t have to do Social Design, really work or work like me. But I do think that it´s important to go outside. If you do research, you don’t just do it in front of the screen. You need to go outside, on site and go and talk with people. You need to not only design for a kind of context; you have to design from within the context. I think it´s important that you start a dialogue with the people you design for.
Kind of participants’ design?
Barbara: That differs. But I do think it´s important that you start a dialogue. It doesn’t mean that it directly influences the design: that´s not always the case. But you need to start a dialogue and not only to do research from within.
Ruben: I do the opposite. I try to stimulate in class that everyone will find his own motivation or urge. As a designer, it means I don’t talk to people about their design. I couldn’t care less, even though I teach design. The environment that I try to create in the classroom is one in which everyone can speak about everyone’s personal and professional development, and can speak out loud about their work and personal interests.
This year, Stilvorlagen has a theme: ”Step Across The Border“. How do you define this border personally? Do you see yourself as a commuter across this border?
Ruben: Stilvorlagen is really nice term. At this moment in time, we are a bit different. But if you take a look at the bigger scale, this approach to design is going to be a standard, so we just happen to be doing something that I think in the end everyone will do. Clients are going to disappear: you are going to work in small communities. We used to say to people, we have this art academy and 20 people will go to an agency, five people will open their own agencies and five people will get married and you’ll ever see them again. But now in Holland, it feels like it is changing. Five people will work in an agency, five people will open their own agency and the other 20 people will have to be very talented and have their own field of expertise. It will sometimes mean earning money with the expertise and allies that they develop. Sometimes they will not have a job for six months, and they will have to do something else to make a living.
What do you recommend to us in terms of our studies?
Barbara: Find your thoughts, love your expertise. I would say: go outside and start a dialogue with people about the projects you are working on. Don’t stay at the academy. Try to formulate your own visions on an issue or a project.
Thank you very much!