Interview with Richard Vijgen

Why can’t we find any personal information about you on the internet? Is it important to you to keep these data to yourself?

No, it’s not a matter of principle. I haven’t really gotten around to putting anything on social media; I never really use Facebook or Linkedin. You are allowed to know everything!

What did you study?

I studied graphic design for four years at the Arnhem School of Art and Design in the Netherlands. Computers were gradually introduced to the course; you were using them all the time in the end. I began thinking about what I can I use this device for, instead of just simulating traditional printing technics in Indesign and Photoshop. I use this machine all day – I thought it would be interesting to see what properties it had and what I could actually do that was specific to what I was working on.

Did your studies lead you to where you are now? Did studying help you?

Yes, of course it helped me. But in a very different way than I had imagined. I realized that this profession was actually changing while I was studying. I felt that I had discovered a problem. The question was: how can you be a designer in a world where information and the nature of information are rapidly changing, and how can you develop strategies to be a designer in that changing field ?

Before you started your own design studio, did you have any work experience?

No. My degree program required me to do an internship at a design agency. I was thinking about moving typography or changing images on a screen; my best bet was that the future of graphic design was going to be tv. I did my internship at a motion graphics agency in Amsterdam. They did commercial projects for companies like Nike; at the time I thought that was really interesting. By the time I graduated, I realized that the change in graphic design was not that things started moving but that this whole field was moving. TV was not the answer.  I had much more fundamental questions about the fluidity of information, the fact that information could change after you designed something and that you could work with interactivity. I started a design studio with a German friend from my class in Arnhem. That lasted for three or four years – we did a lot of work for museums. We made interactive installations, and we were getting a lot of those projects. But I wasn’t really answering my fundamental question about where graphic design was going. So I started a new studio in 2009 under my own name where I was much more free to explore this question.

You created an app (architecture of radio) that shows the rays around us. Do you believe in them? Do they scare you?

No. I believe in the rays: obviously my phone wouldn’t work if the rays were not there. But that wasn’t my motivation for making the application. I am interested in digital systems and how they work. All of us use our phones all day long – but the way they work is quite abstract to us, because we can’t see it. If we compare it to other infrastructure – for example, if you look at railroads or highways – we can relate to it because we see it. This new technology, which we have adapted to and become dependent on in such a short time, is crucial infrastructure. If it didn’t work tomorrow, we would really notice that. The motivation for this application was to try to address the issue of this system’s abstraction by visualizing how it works. I wanted to show this invisible world using data visualization. For me it was just imagination: of course, radio waves don’t look like that. The way I visualized them is my interpretation. Some people say that it’s beautiful; others were afraid. What I like about this app is the aesthetic that allows different interpretations based on that visualization. I stick to the science: but if it all turns out to be harmful, we have a very big problem.

Do you switch off your phone at night?

I started to while I was working on this project. It has an influence on you – but not because of the radiation. I started to become more aware of this thing, the system and my place in it. I wanted more control, and I think there is no need for someone to call or notify me in the middle of the night. I want to make choices about how to use technology rather than just blindly incorporating everything into my life.

When did you start to work so digitally?

At the end or straight after art school. I felt that I had to use code to tell the computer what to do, because otherwise there was always this layer of interpretation between what I wanted to do and what some software engineer imagined the computer should do. I wanted to get closer to the device. It’s tough, but doable – you can learn any craft online now.

You initiate thought processes in your work. But it seems that you let the viewer decide what he should think. Why don’t you show your opinion on all that data? Do you have a point of view?

Not necessarily. I‘m interested in how technology is changing our lives and design. And I want to use my skills as a designer to help people understand this technology. In data visualization, there‘s a big risk of faking reality – because the way the data visualization looks is completely based on a set of programming rules and variables that I have determined. It‘s very easy to visualize something that is the complete opposite of your data source or maybe isn‘t even in it. I always compare it to photography in the early 20th century. Then, a picture is what really happened. Now I could create or manipulate a picture. The same is true with data. It‘s even more dangerous. Therefore I try to make it obvious in my visualizations that I am providing a perspective to look at the data instead of saying how you should interpret it.

Are you following the latest shifts in artificial intelligence and networks? Singularity? Are you optimistic or neutral?

Super interesting question! I have to follow them because I want to be a designer working in a contemporary information culture. It‘s very reasonable to expect that the main way of interacting with information technology might not even be visual. It might be voice controlled or systems embedded in spaces. In order to react to this change, I have to think: „can I still apply my methods and strategies even if the outcome might not even be visual?“ I hate the idea of a singularity where technology evolves based on the properties of the technology itself. It makes no difference and is totally irrelevant whether you‘re a Silicon Valley hedge fund guy or a maybe Bauhaus-style educated person in a humanistic tradition. It’s crucial to dismiss this idea of singularity and really take your time to be involved in how technology is developing, to be active and possibly change it.

Are the lines we see in Architecture of Radio real data levels? Or do they just show what you wanted the lines to look like if the app recognizes a router or satellite? Did you change anything for aesthetic reasons?

No, you can‘t really visualize radio because it has no visual property. Each visualization of radio is an interpretation that you as a designer make between one property of this subject, for example the magnitude or the power or the frequency, and a visual property that you connect it to. You could say a high frequency is red, a low frequency is blue. But in this case, what you see are the sources of signals. It‘s actually very simple data visualization based on three data sets: one is an open source data set about cell towers globally. The second data set is an open source about wifi. And then there is a third data source about the satellites. All is based on measurements from people who have been participating in this open source gathering of information. Their phone picks up the signals and the app combines these three data sets. It looks at your location, finds all the wifi hotspots and cell towers from the data base that are within range and visually represents them with something that is my interpretation of what I would want radio to look like. So it‘s simple. Of course, the next step would be to measure radio. That’s more difficult to do, because you need a lot of different sensors – you can’t do it with an iPhone or iPad. But it‘s definitely something that I‘m exploring, to get a sense of density. Because that‘s what this app really shows you: the density of signals, the amount of towers, radars and satellites.

What was your input to this app? Was it just design or programming, or both? And how important are the aesthetics for you?

Yes, I did it all on my own, and aesthetics are pretty important. That‘s my background as a graphic designer: I want to make something that looks nice. All information is already out there; this database existed before I started working with it. Translating it into a visual format does two things: it speaks to the imagination and offers information. Just giving information isn‘t enough. I want to do it in a way that sparks the imagination. Or at least my imagination.

And why is it so important to make people think about these topics? About data?

Because it‘s the defining technology of our time. Behind it are politics, power, money and forces influencing how a lot of things are going to develop. Having no idea of how to relate to that could actually be dangerous in the end. The fact that all these data centers are in anonymous boxes in some industrial zone outside of the city where you would never go is really a tricky thing. It makes sure that none of us really understands or relates to this technology that is definitely going to change everybody‘s job in the next 20 years. We can only consume something if we can see it in our iPhones. It leaves you quite passive. But I hope architects will make data centers like cathedrals in the center of the city rather than in shipping containers on the periphery. It‘s important to have a little bit more of a direct relation.

What’s your main motivation in making data visual for others?

For me it starts from a fascination, and I always try to connect it to a larger audience. I hope that it is meaningful to others. As a designer, you have to think about your audience. Otherwise it would be autonomous art if it was about me wanting to express myself without an audience. Having been educated as a designer, I do want to communicate. I do want to involve my audience.

Which of your projects do you like or dislike the most?

I think I always like the most recent projects the most.

Do you finance all your projects by yourself?

At this point, it’s 50:50 commissions-based and self-initiated research. So when I did the Architecture of Radio, I started with a question from the ZKM in Karlsruhe (the media art center) to do a piece about communication. They had a little bit of money, so it allowed me to spend a couple of weeks on it. Then you invest a lot of your own time. Eventually you can sell the app and you can get some of that back.

Were there any projects or requests that you rejected in the past?

Sure, after the Architecture of Radio App launch I received requests from people who said things like: ’I run this company for protective clothing for pregnant women so that their baby doesn’t get harmed by radio signals – can we use your app and brand it with our name?’ And I said: ’No, you can not!’ I don’t want it to be used to promote fear. I have to move on at some point, because you tend to attract the kind of projects that you just did. If you want to do a lot of different things, you have to say ’I’m not going to do another version of this app because I want to do something else’.

Could you imagine going a step back and doing analogue things again? Maybe as a basis for other projects?

Yes – I just worked on a tapestry project, a smart textile project. It’s in an early stage. I found it appealing to work with something that actually has physical properties, especially after doing an app for six months –writing excode and debugging it really gets on your nerves. You feel a desire to actually make something that you can touch. But it’s still going to be an interactive piece.

I discovered that I’m really bad at print. I think I’m not patient enough to do really good typography. So I’m not going back to book design. In a couple of years, we are not going to use the phones and computers that we have right now. They have to be integrated in our world in a way that is much more natural than just sitting in front of a glowing piece of glass for eight hours a day.

How long does it roughly take you to work on a project? Or do you have a maximum time limit?

That depends on financing. Most projects take six months minimum. One issue: I really hate deadlines. I usually try to be finished two months before it has to be finished. But most of the projects have so many components: a research part, a visual part, a technical part… especially if it’s software, there has to be a debugging part. Most projects take quite a long time. There are always different projects running at different stages at the same time. But of course you can’t work on something for two or three years if there is no funding. And you have to maintain the interactive projects; you are never finished. When you make a poster, you just put it on a wall and you’re done. But if you make an app, you are going to be attached to it for the next five years because each time there is an iOS update, it is going to stop working. You have to figure out why and then re-update it. So if you do that for several years, you end up with six or seven projects that just keep dragging on in the background.

Which part of your work excites you the most? Is it the beginning, the development of the idea or the design, programming…?

After you know what you are going to make, it’s the first two weeks of making it. That is the nicest because with computers you can sometimes attain big results really quickly. If you just set up something in a rough version, most things you can do are set up roughly in a week. And then there are two months of debugging – that is really terrible. You just sit in front of your computer trying to find out why your program doesn’t work when you swipe to the left four times and then up one time. Terrible.

Are there certain movies, books, video games or artists that inspired you to do what you do?

I try to look where this field is going. I see inspiration everywhere. It is as much from architecture as it is from software or literature or movies. I am just looking for clues where things are moving. It could be in a new material and new ways of interacting, new possibilities through networks. I also get a lot of inspiration from realizing things about the past. Because when things are moving quickly, you get an interesting contrast to how things were before they moved. For example, I did a project about Geocities; I call it digital archaeology. It allows you to re-evaluate how the internet worked 15 years ago and how it works today. Some writers in media theory are also important. Jeron Lanier – he wrote a book ’You are not a gadget’. It is about how people interact with technology. And Nicholas Carr: ’Automation’ and how it effects us. I am not interested in seeing what other interaction designers or graphic designers are doing. I just try to look at different fields as much as possible and then see if there are things that I can incorporate into what I do.

Are there projects that you would like to do that computers are not yet fast enough for?

I am interested in augmented reality. I am much more interested in augmented reality then virtual reality at this point. I am definitely looking forward to creating some of these devices. But that is the near future; it’s something that is already there but you can’t work with it yet. That is a position I really like: working with things that are almost there.

You already told us that your audience matters to you. If you had to sum it up: what role does design play for you?

I think it is the role of sparking the imagination. On the one hand, I don’t care about the audience at all because I just want to make something and put it out there. I think that is the great thing about the internet: you can make something you like and statistically, chances are enough people in the world will like it. On the other hand, I do care because I think working as a designer requires you to think about your audience and about how design could be meaningful to your audience. I do try to communicate, so I try to put that in the design – but at the same time, I don’t want to make too many concessions, because I will find an audience in the internet somewhere. There are a lot of people who do not understand the Architecture of Radio app. They think it is not scientific and stupid. Which makes sense, if you look at it from a scientific perspective. But if you look at it with a playful curiosity for the hidden world of radio, it can be a very nice app. The internet is interesting when it comes to having an audience: because they say everything they think. Most people write ’This is terrible! Why did you make it?’ That is what you get from your audience. But when you look at the statistics, you see that this is actually a very small portion of the people who use it – but it is the portion that you see. You do not see the happy people. That can be a little bit shocking every now and then.

Is design just a tool? Do you just deliver a design? Or does your work as a designer have a social responsibility?

Design doesn’t have this responsibility per se. I think everybody who plays a role in society could have the obligation to be social, responsible, progressive, individual. It is not something that is restricted to design. Just like how it is not restricted to politicians. Traditionally you had a lot of influence, because a designer in the 20th century was a translator between an idea and industry. Later, if you worked in TV or film, you could translate an idea into that technology system and reach a million people. You could say you have a very big responsibility, but you could argue that this role is played by engineers in Silicon Valley. For example, when a software engineer decided to add a button in facebook that allows you to say whether you are a female or male. Now that isn’t a decision made by a designer; an engineer is the one who made it. I was educated at a design school where designers should have a social responsibility. I really like that idea and still think about that; I’m not an activist but I think I want to put my skills and experiences to good use.

Do you have a role model or people who inspire you?

In graphic design? Or like Michael Jackson? I get inspiration from different fields, but a design studio? Catalogtree. They’re a Dutch and German studio. I think they have the most imperial practice I know, in the sense that they also do a lot of commercial work – for the New York Times and the local print shop, they do both. They turn both into their research, so they are one of the most skilled studios that I know; they perfectly balance how to keep things interesting and work with clients. They have a magnificent portfolio.

When we spoke with our teacher and you earlier, we discovered that we are pretty specific here in Germany. We are either programmers or designers. We get the feeling that you have united everything in the Netherlands. Is it the school system?

Wow, that’s a difficult question. When I went to art school, I had this idea that I would be able to influence visual culture: I still have this feeling about digital culture. Of course, it’s getting more and more complex, so maybe it is easier to relate to visual culture in a poster than to have to relate to all this technical stuff in today’s dominant culture, which is digital. And I don’t have twenty engineers to do that – it would be impossible to finance a project if I did need twenty engineers. I’m not the best programmer or typographer as I already mentioned. If you do all these things, you are not a super-specialized user interface guy, so my interface is always quirky. It never works as smoothly as Google’s new app. In general, I think Dutch art education is very critical of authority: the whole concept of hierarchy is difficult for the Dutch, usually a lot of people I know are not comfortable with a concept of a boss. They are willing to coordinate, but not submit to anything. That could be Dutch: a little bit chaotic sometimes. But art education is like that.

This year the main topic at Stilvorlagen is: Across the Border. What do you think is meant by that?

For me it’s about the border of the discipline. For most people who study graphic design, the future will be at the intersection of graphic design and some other field. Probably you will find a niche there, because just graphic design as a traditional discipline has become more difficult. It will be graphic design in combination with fashion, architecture, music… there are a million opportunities.